[phishergirl]

ok, but i read today that the moves alice made in "through the looking glass" are not possible in a real chess game.  it was here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through_the_looking_glass

Chess

Whereas the first book has the deck of cards as a theme, this book is loosely based on a game of chess, played on a giant chessboard with fields for squares. Most main characters met in the story are represented by a chess piece, with Alice herself being a pawn. However, the chess game described cannot be carried out legally due to a move where white doesn't move out of check (a list of moves is included - note that a young child might make this error due to inexperience). The looking-glass world is divided into sections by brooks, with the crossing of each brook usually signifying a notable change in the scene and action of the story: the brooks represent the divisions between squares on the chessboard, and Alice crossing them signifies the advancing of her piece one square. The sequence of moves (white and red) is not always followed, however, which goes along with the book's mirror image reversal theme as noted by mathematician and author Martin Gardner[citation needed].

[vanyvrgs]

ok, but i read today that the moves alice made in "through the looking glass" are not possible in a real chess game.  it was here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through_the_looking_glass

Chess

Whereas the first book has the deck of cards as a theme, this book is loosely based on a game of chess, played on a giant chessboard with fields for squares. Most main characters met in the story are represented by a chess piece, with Alice herself being a pawn. However, the chess game described cannot be carried out legally due to a move where white doesn't move out of check (a list of moves is included - note that a young child might make this error due to inexperience). The looking-glass world is divided into sections by brooks, with the crossing of each brook usually signifying a notable change in the scene and action of the story: the brooks represent the divisions between squares on the chessboard, and Alice crossing them signifies the advancing of her piece one square. The sequence of moves (white and red) is not always followed, however, which goes along with the book's mirror image reversal theme as noted by mathematician and author Martin Gardner[citation needed].

Well in the preface to the 1896 edition Carroll defends the moves  he said:
As the chess-problem, given on the previous page, has puzzled some of my readers, it may be well to explain that it is correctly worked out, so far as the moves are concerned. The alternation of Red and White is perhaps not so strictly observed as it might be, and the “castling” of the three Queens is merely a way of saying that they entered the palace; but the “check” of the White King at move 6, the capture of the Red Knight at move 7, and the final “checkmate” of the Red King, will be found, by any one who will take the trouble to set the pieces and play the moves as directed, to be strictly in accordance with the laws of the game.

I do not know how to freaking play the game, even chinese checkers is a problem for moi, my point is that it is 11 and that 11 is significant to dharma when it comes to communication (well the numbers add to 11 -- I am stretching).  I also found it interesting Mikhail was on the island for 11 years.  What, if it means a thing, I dunno.

[pilarandmike]

You don't suppose this makes Juliette the "queen" for getting to the other side?
I can't stand her.

[E gratis?]

I looked at

http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/carroll/zrd/0.htm

and the second part of the title is, 'And What Alice Found There'.   I'm no expert on Carroll, and I might be totally wrong about this, but two things came bubbling up in what I refer to as my mind...

First, the LG station is the Looking Glass, (duh) and maybe what we've  been experiencing, as observers, is 'what Alice found there'... meaning we've been seeing what the experiences are of a 'certain person' who goes through the looking glass.  On 'The Answers' (aired Thursday night), the producers made, what seemed to me, a big deal about Juliet and how she got to the island via the sub and presumably Through the Looking Glass.  It occurred to me that Juliet is an 'Alice';  she is indeed a pawn, particularily Ben's pawn.   We know that Ethan, Richard, et al have been traveling to and from the island by these means for some time (they mentioned this too), and it seems to me that possibly, Ehtan and Richard are also 'chess pieces'; not neccessarily pawns, as Juliet is, but possibly rooks or knights.... I wish I knew something about chess and how this would play out using the game, and the moves, mentioned in the book, with these other characters.  Maybe we could figure out who 'wins' the up-coming battle between the losties and the others.  The third red queen mentioned in the book (remember there are only two queens in an ordinary game of chess) could be the original DI (maybe as represented by the women in the LG).  All this ties into...

Second, 'hare' (mentioned by Vany on the last page of this thread) is an 'alternate' word, used interchangeably with rabbit, even though they are, technically, two different creatures... this suggests to me that what one character's reality is, might be another's characters alternate reality, but they are occupying the same time-space continuum (a term also used by the producers in 'The Answers'), i.e. the island.   

[chipmunk02]

hmmmmm a big underwater station that is designed to hold the sub...uh don't they dock the sub at the pier..yes they do...so possibly this sub originates its trip from the looking glass..yup..only a few hundred feet long trip...turbelent I think not.  High level security..chick with guns ready to kill.  I'm thinking the Looking Glass hatch is the portal to the real world..the vortex, the seam between the two worlds...what an elaborate hoax that a secret submarine ride is how you get to the Island...perhaps its as simple as opening a doorway.

I LOVE this theory.  LOVE it.  The Looking Glass being a portal to a time warp...hmmmm.  Maybe Michael and Walt will pop up!  LOL.  Also, I know it was debated earlier that they should have just cut the cable, but I think they went through with Desmond's "vision" so as to not alter the possibility of Clare getting on that helicopter.

I, too, question Naomi's story.  However, we do know that...

Spoiler (hover to show)

The actress that plays Penny is slated for the finale so maybe her story is somewhat believable.

I also like the theory about Annie being down there.  I know we can't say with any certainty that Ben would care enough about her to "save" her, but it's the only realistic reason behind them bothering to cast the little girl.  I mean, the hippie dude that brought them there could have easily given Ben a b-day gift.

I don't know what to think of the possibility of

Spoiler (hover to show)

four more people dying.

  I can't think of anyone I'd want to part with.  I think, at the end of the day, most of us are OK with Charlie dying but that's about it.   

Oh yea....and I know NADA about chess so I won't attempt to comment on that one.  I do like that theory as well.  It sort of ties into Riggs' theory about the rabbit hole.  If this is in any way connected to Alice and Wonderland or Through the Looking Glass, it would make sense as we've had reminders of those movies throughout the series. 

[vanyvrgs]

I LOVE this theory.  LOVE it.  The Looking Glass being a portal to a time warp...hmmmm.  Maybe Michael and Walt will pop up!  LOL.  Also, I know it was debated earlier that they should have just cut the cable, but I think they went through with Desmond's "vision" so as to not alter the possibility of Clare getting on that helicopter.

I also like the theory about Annie being down there.  I know we can't say with any certainty that Ben would care enough about her to "save" her, but it's the only realistic reason behind them bothering to cast the little girl.  I mean, the hippie dude that brought them there could have easily given Ben a b-day gift.

Oh yea....and I know NADA about chess so I won't attempt to comment on that one.  I do like that theory as well.  It sort of ties into Riggs' theory about the rabbit hole.  If this is in any way connected to Alice and Wonderland or Through the Looking Glass, it would make sense as we've had reminders of those movies throughout the series. 

Well there is also a rabbit hole on the actual hatch logo.....We also have Watership Down, The Third Policeman, the Bible and the Oddessey to takle among others.

Regarding Annie, I think there is more of a possibility if anything that annie is Dannielle not down there since she would have been there for over 16 years and don't think she would be helping Ben after Ben killed everyone unless there was some brainwashing.  There is a thread for that speculation here as well.

Regarding the cable, we cannot really say it is anything but what the map said -- an anchor.  The last thing that we need is to have someone cut it and then have it be mobile.... LOL

[Brennan]

As for the seventh station contradiction:
1) We never were told about 6 stations, just 6 orientatin videos.
2) It's possible that either the LG or Hydra (or both) are a seventh hidden station.
3) The Pearl might not count as a real station because it was really only a psychological experiment; the LG could be the real monitoring center, hence the name.

The Arrow is a real station however, and was at one time used for something other than storage, because Horace had the arrow logo and the words "mathematician" on his jumpsuit.  So unless Dharma has their mathematicians moving boxes, the Arrow has to be one of the "six stations."  I still don't see any reason why there has to be six though.  The Swan and Pearl occupants were told (could've been a lie) about six orientation videos so there are numerous loopholes the producers could use for having seven, or even more, stations.

As for the fembots, like I said on the other thread, I don't think either of them is Annie because of the age differences, and it's possible that they're either Dharma being kept down there by Ben secretly or that he doesn't know about them, but I'm thinking the former.  Or of course, they could just be Hostiles.  And we can't rule out the idea that they're from Naomi's ship, either.  Until the finale, we don't really have much evidence to favor one theory over the others.

[thepilot]

So the White Rabbit seems to be significant.  Checked Wikipedia for Lewis carroll and was reminded:

"The fifth episode of the TV series Lost was titled "White Rabbit." In it Locke refers to the 'ghost' Jack is chasing after as a white rabbit. He suggests that impossible things might be possible on the island, making it a Wonderland of sorts."

And what is the significance of Alex, the White (not just any old wild) rabbit and blood on her hands?  Has she inadvertently set our Losties trap by sending off Carl?

Also from Wiki Re. Through the Looking Glass:

"Alice ponders what the world is like on the other side of a mirror, and to her surprise, is able to pass through to experience the alternate world. She discovers a book with looking-glass poetry, "Jabberwocky," which she can read only by holding it up to a mirror."

Maybe we are going to get more Carrollesque metaphors?

[Mysteria]

I know this is a stretch, but what do y'all think when the logo's turned upside down? I think maybe there could be a hint of a :Bermuda Triangle angle" going on. 

[Brennan]

All I see is a bunny with the blood rushing to his head.  What do you see?

Something else I (well, Lostpedia) noticed about the logo is that on the schematics the rabbit has a clock on its chest (not a hole like we thought) with the time pionting to 8:15, however on the depiction of the logo atop the station itself, there is no clock.  I put the images as links because the later two are huge.
A Fan-Made Depicition of the Logo as seen on the Schematics
The top of the Looking Glass
The Schematic of the Looking Glass (notice the clock on the Logo)

[E gratis?]

I know this is a stretch, but what do y'all think when the logo's turned upside down? I think maybe there could be a hint of a :Bermuda Triangle angle" going on. 

I can actually see something... the rabbit's eye is the mouth, the hole is the big alien eye (it's left eye; it's right eye is a profile, suggested by the black), and it has a big nose, or, rather a cheekbone...  but I'm really good at seeing shite that's not there..

[vanyvrgs]

All I see is a bunny with the blood rushing to his head.  What do you see?

Something else I (well, Lostpedia) noticed about the logo is that on the schematics the rabbit has a clock on its chest (not a hole like we thought) with the time pionting to 8:15, however on the depiction of the logo atop the station itself, there is no clock.  I put the images as links because the later two are huge.
A Fan-Made Depicition of the Logo as seen on the Schematics
The top of the Looking Glass
The Schematic of the Looking Glass (notice the clock on the Logo)

Thanks for that, I had posted the schematics before and did not notice that clock, nevermind the rabbit hole, I guess... I can't believe now there is something else reminding when I have to leave home to be at work on time.

[Harrymagnetic]

Just a few musings about this episode,

first of all given the size of Looking Glass thats a puny looking anchor cable, I'm not convinced that the cable shown is the anchor cable.

Looking at the schematics of the LG there are a number of doors around the circular chamber and the control room is facing away from the island. I'm thinking maybe the chambers are filled with water to somehow protect the people inside the control room maybe from certain blasts, magnetic or otherwise....I'm thinking the accident ben refers to is probably after the purge...he may have led or sent some of the hostiles down to check it out(probably not being privy to the LG while he was with dharma) and they inadvertantly flooded the LG, killing someone in the process. As to the two women its so obvious guys come on they were the girls from row 2!!

[Brennan]

I can actually see something... the rabbit's eye is the mouth, the hole is the big alien eye (it's left eye; it's right eye is a profile, suggested by the black), and it has a big nose, or, rather a cheekbone...  but I'm really good at seeing shite that's not there..

I see it!  Finally!  Except, the Alien appears to have a second neck or something.  If you edit that it, it does look like a Grey though.  However, I bet that's purely coincidental and we're all just looking too deeply into this.

Here's the picture with the second neck and all the outside distractions removed:

[mccrank]

that actually looks like a mutated tadpole with its mouth wide open(sideview)

you know you can see it