[smeghead]

Hi there,

I kinda kept up with this theory until you mentioned "The VIMANA".  Has this been mentioned in the series? or is it something yet to come?

Thanks.

[EDIT] Actually, ignore me - this is obviously a theory on what Lost maybe about rather than what we've actually seen so far

[thestat]

Hi,

I live in the UK and have been an avid fan of LOST since it started, I also have a keen interest in Mythology and Number symbolism, so the apperance of dharma and 108 was great to see.  I have been doing some reading up and I agree with the Nine theooy, in fact i have been working on a world unifying theory based around the number nine for the past 10 years, check out Norse mythology for the use of Nine in their religion and the fact that Valhalla has 540 doors!!!  Pubclear's mention of

"Each of the Nine Unknown Men are said to be Ascended Masters"

struck me as being inexplicably linked to what I have found out recently about dharma and his earthly representation, a DOG (funny there being a dog in LOST aye  )  So here's what I have dug up that may support the Nine Unknown Men theory;

Dharma means a lawful order and moral virtue, it is part of a 4 fold system, that is indian in origin.  It relates to the buddhist idea of a personal, uncompulsive, sensitive relationship to empirical reality.  This correlates with the emotional strains and revelations that the people on the LOST island are experiencing.  Dharma is similar to the word 'tao', from the Book of the Virtue or Power of the Way (tao), it is a 'path' (Locke goes on about having a personal path alot in the 1st series) a law and order to the universe, how the universe works.

Dharma derives from the sanskrit root word 'dhr', meaning to hold up, support, sustain, maintain, an order that supports the universe; just like the machine that has to have the numbers punched in to keep the world from ending.

Now down to the mythology, by looking at two books (Oriental Mythology by Joseph Campbell and Hamlet's Mill by Georgio de Santilllana & Hertha von Dechend) I found a very interesting tale in the Mahabharata.  The Mahabharata is dated from around 400AD or after, according to Joseph Campbell, but perhaps older than this and thus may share a historical and cultural affinity with the 'Nine Unknown men' sources.  The Mahabharata is the story of a dynastic struggle, culminating in an awesome battle between two branches of a single Indian ruling family. The account of the fight between the Kurus and the Pandavas for the fertile and wealthy land at the confluence of the Yamuna and Ganges rivers near Delhi is enhanced by peripheral stories that provide a social, moral, and cosmological background to the climactic battle.  Interseting enough it is made up of 18 parvas, again we see the 9 symbolism, 1+8 make 9, so does 108, referring to the swan in the first dharma initiative film and 540 the number of days needed to stay in the hatch (5 + 4 = 9).  I have also seen 108 pop up following the clues on the hanso foundation website, the hidden link on the Electromagnetic research initiative diagram that leads to this webpage

http://www.letyourcompassguideyou.com/

which shows some form of mystical compass, note how the numbers given to each line or point all add up to nine

360 (e.g 3 + 6 + 0 = 9), 36, 72, 90, 108, 144, 180, 216, 252, 270, 288, 324.

Anyway, back to the DOG and dharma...

In the final part of the Mahabharata Yudhishthira, the eldest of the 5 Pandava, becomes weary of the world and decides he wishes to retire from being king and embark on a life of pilgrimage.  On heearing of his intentions his four borthers, Nhima, Arjuna, and the twins Nakula and Sahadeva decide to accompany on his pilgrimage.  Yudhishthira decides the successors to his various kingdoms, this reliquishing of power perturbs the inhabitants of the provinces and counsel him against leaving them.  Due to Yudhishthira's righteous soul he persuades the people that his decision is correct; he casts off his clothes and ornaments, choosing to wear tree bark to on his pilgimage.  Yudhishthira is joined by his 4 brothers and Draupadi, their shared wife, and a DOG forming the seventh, set out on their journey.  They wander east, south, west, then north and cross the himalayas towards the mountain 'Meru'; which they start to ascend, though all but Yudhishthira and the DOG.  They reach the summit and are met by Indra who descends by chariot (is this the same vehicle as Vimana or one of them that you are talking about pubclear?) to let him into heaven; Yudhishthira insists on the DOG being allowed to ascend to heaven.  Once the DOG is admitted to heaven he changes into DHARMA, and sepaks to Yudhishthira telling him he has passed the tests that have been set for him.  the text goes on to explain that Yudhishthira leaves heaven because his brothers and sisters are not there but in hell, upon which they are all return to heaven.

Soo... if the DOG lives through LOST then maybe this may go some way in explaining the would complex plot; and perhaps ties in with your theroy, pubclear, about the Nine unknown men.

what you say here:

"An Ascended Master is an individual who has undergone the process of ascension. Throughout history, there have been stories of these individuals who have reached a higher state of spiritual awareness and placed themselves in service to humanity.
They are also said to have undergone a process of spiritual transformation, they are attentive to the spiritual growth of humanity and also act as guides to humanity’s spiritual growth."

this ties in with buddish belief of dharma and the fourfold path of life and enlightenemnt.

Finally it is believed that the buddha's soul consists of 'dharmadhatu-kayu; meaning rule of law of the true being.

O.K that wraps it up, if I find any other stuff that may help with your theory Pubclear I will put it into this thread

[pubclear]

so apparently, as it was brought to my attention through a myspace message, but Shambala was the song playing in the van and in hurley's car from childhood.  go figure...

[TheUnknownMan]

I still think this theory holds some weight.

[corps413]

Fisrt, Pubclear, this thread was a most excellent read. You did a great job.
 
   This theory needs to be revisited in light of all the new information and goings on that have happened since its conception. I am not a writer, so bare with me on holes that I may have and out of order sequences. I researched mostly Wikipedia for some of the information so if I have holes or this is jumpy or people would like to interject there own thoughts, please search Wikipedia for: Ascended Master, Theosophy, Helen Blatvasky or Thesophical Society.

     *Jacob could be an ascended master.
          - or perhaps one of the Nine Unknown Men. (for the rest of this post,
            I am assuming he is an ascended or un-ascended master.)
Back when this thread started, think that Alvar Hanso was an AM made complete sense. Now with the introduction of Jacob, it seems more likely that Jacob would be the AM. This could also tie into the pregnancy thing in as much as what Pubclear said about imaculant conception. I will get back to that later in the post.

     *Theosophy
          - or God wisdom is related to the belief of Ascended Masters and, on Wikipedia, is described as being the philosophy that all religions are attempts, by humanity, to approach the absolute. Theosophy can be tied to all religions, especially the ones that have been expressed on LOST. (ie, Hinduism, Buddism) The Dharma Initiative, being created or formed with the persuit of the betterment of humanity, directly reflects ideals of Theosophy. Alvar Hanso, a philanthropist, as well as Charles Whidmore are examples of followers Theosophy. The spiritual movement or revolution that was evident when DI was created also conforms nicely to the Ideals of Theosophy.

     * A Theosophical Society which can be related to "the other" is one that lives be the ideals of Theosophy. A TS has three objectives which are as follows:
1)  To form a nucleus of the universal brotherhood of humanity. This can be
    seen as the utopian society that the DI are testing on the Island. Ben
    Always said "We're the good guys".
2)  To encourage the study of comparative religion, philosophy and science.
    I have yet to see a church in othersvill but Eko did in fact attempt to
    construct a chirch. Claire had Aaron baptised and Sayid was practicing
    Islam. The study of science is evident in the Stations throughout the island
    electromagnetism, gene therapy on polar bears, sharks ect..
3)  To investigate the unexplained laws of nature and the powers latent in man.
    We keep seeing that book by Stephen Hawking "A Brief History of Time" It
    is describes the basics of physics, quantum physics and spact / time. The
    Powers latent in man, this is interesting because we now have found out
    that Desmond can see thing, an extra ordinary power. He needed a catalyst
    to bring out his dormant or latent power, but none the less, it is being
    explored.

We know the relavance of the numbers and Dharma, 108. Which can all be related back to Theosophy.

Now, keeping in mind Pubclears theory, Jacob may already be on the island. he dwells there, exists there, lives there or is just there. Smokey can be describes and has been know as Cerebus the guardian (of hell) maybe he is the security system for Jacob, the ascended master. Alvar hanso, Mittlewerk, Christian Sheppard, Whidmore, Piak all of these people would be believers or folowers of the Master or teacher. All trying to bring together humanity for the "Greater Good" (an episode name by the way). Like I said earlier, there may be some holes, I kinda wrote this on the fly and probally could have thought it out much better. The question that now remains is, Can the writers dummy this explaination down to satisfy the ABC executives and the viewers so that we all can follow it and comprehend with out extensive amounts of research. or do they develop another similiar ARG type deal that will give all of this some meaning like the Lost Experience did for DHARMA. Also keep in mind that it has been said that the DI is but a small part in what is really going on. Don't beat me up too Bad!!!


   

[jubinjpm]

it is very interesting please give me more about them, is there any book related to this topic. please forward it or link
thankx a lot